Documents and transcripts of testimony
A letter <fbi_ging.html> from the FBI admits deliberate jamming of an amateur radio station. This admission is augmented by DOD testimony <hwh_tr1.html> naming Air Force as an illegal jammer.
Hearings transcript Testimony of Ambassador H. Alan Holmes, Assistant Secretary for special operations and low intensity conflicts at Department of Defense is the witness. July 31, 1995 Opening Statement (Excerpt) Amb. Holmes: In addition, from March ten to seventeen, we provided equipment to interfere with television reception within the compound, and we provided civilian personnel support to operate that equipment. The equipment was removed from Waco on March eighteen. Later Mr. Zeliff: Why was the jamming equipment used at Waco? You indicated in your testimony, in your opening statement March tenth to March seventeenth and then was removed on the eighteenth. Does the use of such equipment need Presidential approval or anybody's approval? Amb. Holmes: That equipment was used to interfere with the TV reception. It is approvable by normal DOD authority. It is equipment that was requested, and we respond to that under existing authority. Mr. McCollum: Now, with regard to jamming equipment that was used to prevent television signals, you indicated that the operation of this equipment was by civilians. Did you mean the FBI, you did not mean civilian military personnel did you? Amb. Holmes: No, I...let me check something here. (Holmes checks his notes.) The equipment to interfere with the reception of the TV signals was operated by DOD civilians. Mr. McCollum: It was by DOD civilians? Amb. Holmes: Yes. Mr. Schiff: Mr. Holmes, I'd like to ask you this question. I believe you said that Department of Defense civilian personnel were operating some surveillance equipment at the Waco site? Amb. Holmes: No, I said that DOD civilians were operating equipment to interfere with the reception of TV signals in the compound for approximately five days in mid-March. Mr. Schiff: Were they operating from some location other than right around the Waco compound? Amb. Holmes: That was operated right there in the vicinity. I don't recall exactly where it was, but it was definitely right there in the Waco vicinity. Mr. Schiff: What agency did those, within the DOD, what agency, what service did those civilians come from? Amb. Holmes: (Holmes checks his notes) They came from the Air Force. Mr. Schiff: And if we need their names, are you able to provide that, at some point? Amb. Holmes: I think we could do that. I don't see why not. Mr. Zeliff: Mr. Ambassador, the fact that you indicated that the Air Force used jamming devices, and I believe, that was for about a week and then they left on the eighteenth. Why did they leave? Amb. Holmes: I really don't know why they left, but they did. (Laughter from the committees.) Mr. Zeliff: They just thought it was a good idea to do it for a week and then leave? Amb. Holmes: I don't know, let me consult with some of my colleagues. (Holmes speaks with a man seated behind him.) Mr. Zeliff: And I understand they were DOD civilians? Amb. Holmes: I think probably the answer to that question should be directed to the FBI. I mean they, you know.... Mr. Zeliff: OK, we'll do that. Amb. Holmes: They must have said they didn't need them. Mr. Zeliff: And my question really is...is they were DOD civilians, I think I heard you say? Amb. Holmes: Yes. Mr. Zeliff: And were actually...they were manning those devices?
Return to The Evidence forImpeachment <impeach.html> Amb. Holmes: Yes., they ran that equipment and , I think they were, perhaps, a mixture of DOD civilians and , perhaps, contractors. I'm not quite sure of the breakdown. Mr. Zeliff: Unlike the situation where the FBI were actually manning the tanks? Amb. Holmes: That is right. Everything else...all other equipment was run by the FBI. Mr. Zeliff: Thank you very much.
FCC Chairman Kennard ignores Communications Act. FCC Chairman Kennard ignores request to investigate jamming, stands in violation of Freedom of Information Act, as of October 21, 1998. When Congressman Gingrich received his copy of this letter, he announced his resignation, rather than investigate. George Zimmerlee 89 Rhodes Drive Marietta, Georgia 30068 October 3, 1998 Chairman William Kennard Federal Communications Commission 1919 M Street, NW Washington, DC 20554 Chairman Kennard: I request your immediate attention in doing the work of the Commission in executing and enforcing the Communications Act and to assisting in arrest and prosecutions of Commission personnel and personnel of other agencies, to declassify all documents pertaining to these operations and to release all files pertaining to these operations. Criminal Activity Included in this package are documents which show that the FCC worked together with the FBI and probably with the U.S. Air Force to knowingly, deliberately, intentionally, willfully, purposefully, maliciously and criminally violate provisions of the Communications Act. Any claim that the FCC was present only to monitor operations for compliance is not believable in light of the violations by Departments of Justice (FBI) and Department of Defense (Air Force). Obviously the mission of FCC at Waco had nothing to do with Communications Act compliance. Section 706 misuse Section 706 of the Communications Act allows the President to suspend the Act in certain situations. Some agencies claimed to have violated no laws. If the President invoked Sec.706, this would create a legal status wherein normally illegal operations became "legal", but would have been an abuse of power for political purposes. Background During the 1993 assault, standoff, and siege at Waco, Texas between members of the Branch Davidian Church and BATF, FBI, and U.S. and foreign military forces, deliberate interference to various services were carried out by FBI and U.S. Air Force. FBI has admitted to jamming AM and FM broadcasters and television broadcasters in the Waco, Texas area and jamming the Amateur Radio Service. Because of the frequencies in use, the FBI also caused interference to amateur service operations in foreign nations worldwide. Ambassador Holmes admits that U.S. Air Force jammed television broadcasters in the Waco, Texas area. At no time did any operations of any broadcasters or the amateur station within Mount Carmel Center (the church and home of the Branch Davidians) present any threat or danger to order, public safety, or decency. Broadcasters and the amateur station were in compliance with all laws. FCC took no action against any broadcasters or the amateur station to require suspension of operations. FCC made no notice of illegal operations or technical violations to broadcasters or the amateur station. Therefore, there is no reason for broadcasters or the amateur station to cease or modify operations. FBI made no request of the amateur station to cease operations. FBI did engage in illegal intimidation against broadcasters in the Waco, Texas area by claiming the FBI was part of the same government which issues broadcasting licenses. FBI made no lawful request of broadcasters to cease operations. FBI had no such jurisdiction or authority. Communications Act Violations Equipment used for deliberate interference operated by FBI and Air Force were government operated stations. Such operations is in violation of Section 305 (47 USC 305). FCC supplying equipment to and tolerating illegal operations of FBI and Air Force makes FCC a co-conspirator to jamming and, therefore, censorship of broadcasters and the Amateur Radio Service. Such FCC censorship violates Section 326 (47 USC 326). FBI and Air Force personnel operated equipment to willfully and maliciously interfere with stations licensed under the Act. These persons violated Section 333 (47 USC 333). These violations should not be considered a complete list of Communications Act violations, only those which have already been admitted. Since you are charged with execution and enforcement of the Act, you are hereby required to immediately and most judiciously investigate these illegal operations over which you have purview. Additional Violations Other violations over which you have purview are illegal wiretapping on the part of the FBI and BATF to intercept telephone communications of the Branch Davidians and illegal interception of a phone call made by David Koresh (Vernon Howell) to the emergency 911 service made by means of a cellular telephone. Such interception was in violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. Additional violations of ECPA probably took place, namely the interception of cellular communications to strip an electronic identification code for the purpose of determining the cellular service provider used by Koresh. Other illegal operations may have been non-standard operations within the cellular radio service for the purpose of draining battery power of the cellular phone used by Koresh and setting up a counterfeit cell site or clone of a legitimate cell site. I hereby request you investigate these violations in addition to other violations, to declassify all documents pertaining to such operations and to release all files. Freedom of Information Act notice Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I request you to release all documents described above as well as all documents which pertain to operations of government at Waco, Texas toward the Branch Davidians or in any way incidental to such operations. Yours for Justice, George Zimmerlee (firstname.lastname@example.org) End of letter to FCC Chairman William Kennard. Delivered to FCC, 10/06/98 USPS Delivered to FCC, 10/21/98 FEDEX 09:31 AM Administrative appeal <foia_apl.html> to FCC, 11/13/98 FEDEX 09:38 AM, a 4-page example of thorough description of possible documents. All Republican members of Judiciary Committee have copies. Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, received 11/12/98.. Supporting documents, sent with this package, include Dallas Morning News articles <dmn0493.html>, House Waco Hearings testimony <hwh_tr1.html>, and FBI letter to Newt Gingrich <fbi_ging.html>. Return to The Evidence for Impeachment <impeach.html>
George Zimmerlee 1998 Research on Criminal Government Rev. 11/98 This material is not protected by copyright.
Administrative appeal under FOIA to FCC Chairman Kennard. Initial request was completely ignored TWICE, making two criminal counts. When Kennard is tried for felony conspiracy, he will have a rap sheet with two "priors". Received at FCC 11/13/98 09:38 AM. George Zimmerlee 89 Rhodes Drive Marietta, GA 30068 November 11, 1998 Chairman William Kennard Federal Communications Commission 1919 M Street, NW Washington, DC 20554 Chairman Kennard: More than 10 days having elapsed since my initial request under the Freedom of Information Act, I now file this administrative appeal. The initial letter of October 3, 1998 is enclosed for your reference. This letter was delivered at FCC (10/06/98), and again (10/21/98). Copies have been sent to the Chairman and member of the House Judiciary Committee and Independent Council Kenneth Starr as well as my Congressman and Senators in Georgia and selected members of the newsmedia as well as being posted to the World Wide Web. In other words, YOU ARE SCREWED. As we both know, Mr. Kennard, you are sacrificing your job and risking imprisonment in order to cover the crimes of the President. Such coverup is misprision of a felony, 18 U.S.C.A. Sec.4. Yet, you are required by law to comply with this administrative appeal. More specific descriptions of the documents I am requesting follow, most have to do with the historic event of various federal agencies against the Branch Davidian Church near Waco, Texas in the approximate timeframe of 1992 and early 1993: 1) Orders from the President of the United States which authorized the jamming activities (radio frequency interference) against the Branch Davidian Church at Mount Carmel Center on EE Ranch Road near Waco, Texas which may have targeted amateur radio stations, citizens radio service radio stations, and cellular phone radio stations during the 51-day standoff with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF), and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1993. 2) Orders from the President of the United States which authorized the jamming activities (radio frequency interference) against radio and television broadcasters during the 51-day standoff between the Branch Davidian Church and the BATF and the FBI. 3) Any documents exempting or excusing the FCC from its duty to execute and enforce provisions of the Communications Act of 1934 concerning the jamming activities (radio frequency interference) conducted during the 51-day standoff between the Branch Davidian Church and the BATF and FBI. 4) All documents, duty logs, or operation logs pertaining to operation of a jamming transmitter by FBI or FBI personnel, or FCC or FCC personnel, or Department of Defense (DOD) or Air Force personnel. 5) Any documents which pertain to FBI or FBI personnel, or FCC or FCC personnel, or DOD or Air Force personnel involvement in jamming operations (radio frequency interference) against the Citizens Radio Service, the Amateur Radio Service, Radio Broadcast Service, or Television Broadcast Service or Cellular Radio Service. 6) Any documents, technical manuals, or specifications pertaining to or describing the jamming equipment which was supplied to the FBI or FBI personnel, or DOD or Air Force personnel, by the FCC or FCC personnel, or by the DOD. 7) Any document, notes, manuals, booklets, charts, tables, check lists, or instructional materials of any kind, or records of verbal instructions pertaining to the operation of the jamming equipment which was supplied with the jamming equipment or made available to the FBI or FBI personnel, or FCC or FCC personnel, or DOD or Air Force personnel. 8) Any document pertaining to the use of jamming equipment against the Branch Davidian Church or radio or television broadcasters. 9) Any document listing frequencies or stations to be jammed, or which were jammed, or any list giving priority of stations to be jammed. 10) Any document pertaining to program materials or types of programming to be jammed. 11) Any documents which establish that any private telecommunications of the Branch Davidian Church at Mount Carmel Center or any Citizens Radio Service or Amateur Radio Service stations therein were a danger to the security of the state or contrary to its laws, or to public order or to decency. 12) Any document pertaining to distress message traffic sent by any means from the the Branch Davidian Church building (Mount Carmel Center) or any distress message traffic which may have been sent by Amateur Radio Stations KB5UPG, KJ5HJ, AB5KZ, KJ5HK, or AB5LA known to exist at Mount Carmel Center, or any distress message traffic sent from Mount Carmel Center by means of the Citizens Radio Service or cellular telephone. 13) Any document pertain to antennas or the destruction of any antennas, antenna structures, antenna towers, or any supporting structures or towers or poles or trees which supported any antennas on the Branch Davidian Church property at Mount Carmel Center. 14) Any document pertaining to the interception of telephone conversations from Mount Carmel Center by cellular telephone. 15) Any document or communication between the Attorney General of the United States, or any Assistant U.S. Attorney at Waco which authorized or approved jamming operations. 16) Any document from any authority, or de facto authority, or persons or agencies acting as authority, even under color of law, which gave approval or authorization to any electronic operations, electronic perimeter, or deliberate interference or jamming to communications regardless of means or type of communication, or efforts to prevent anyone from receiving, hearing, seeing or witnessing communications, broadcast, signals, or messages or any type regardless of means or transmission or reception. 17) Any document from the National Telecommunications and Information Administration which authorized or approved jamming operations (radio frequency interference). 18 Any document authorizing the FBI or FCC or Department of Defense or Air Force or other agency of government to engage in violations of the Communications Act of 1934, or the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986, or 18 USC 2511 (Wiretapping). 19) Any document from the International Telecommunication Union or the United Nations authorizing violation of the International Radio Regulations, Article 44, 1. pertaining to harmful interference or authorizing violation of Article 45, 1. pertaining to priority of distress communications. 20) Any document pertaining to a regulation, instruction, or order establishing jamming as acceptable, permissible, or as standard operating procedure. 21) Any other related documents pertaining to jamming conducted during the 51-day standoff. 22) Any document made pursuant to Section 706 of the Communications Act of 1934 (as amended), 47 USC 706, regarding the suspension of the Act during 1993 or regarding any jamming operations (radio frequency interference) conducted during the 51-day standoff at Mount Carmel Center. 23) Any document, technical manuals, or specification pertaining to or describing the jamming equipment which was supplied to the FBI or FBI personnel, or FCC or FCC personnel, or Department of Defense (DOD) or Air Force personnel. 24) Any document referring to jamming operations (radio frequency interference) conducted by DOD or Air Force personnel, including Air Force civilians. 25) Any document referred to by John H. Kaul, Legislative Counsel, Office of Public and Congressional Affairs at FBI in his letter of April 5, 1994 (copy enclosed). These documents may have authorized "electronic operations", or an "electronic perimeter", or efforts to "deny those communications", or to cause radio frequency interference to a station in the Citizens Radio Service, or to cause radio frequency interference to radio and television stations in the Radio Broadcast Service, or to cause radio frequency interference to a station in the Amateur Radio Service. Kaul refers to approval of electronic operations by an Assistant U.S. Attorney at the Waco command post. 26) Any document which delegates authority to any U.S. Attorney or the Attorney General to execute and enforce provisions of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, especially Sections 305, 326, 333, and 706. 27) Any document exempting or excusing the Federal Communications Commission from its duty to execute and enforce the Communications Act of 1934 during the 51-day standoff between the Branch Davidian Church and the BATF and FBI. 28) Any document giving approval to FBI, BATF, FCC, DOD, Air Force, or other agency of government to intercept wire-line or cellular telephone conversations of anyone inside Mount Carmel Center, near Waco, Texas, the home of the Branch Davidian Church. 29) Any document approving or authorizing any agency of government to modify or sabotage wire-line or cellular telephone equipment inside Mount Carmel Center during or before the 51-day standoff with BATF and FBI. 30) Any document approving or authorizing any agency of government to modify, disable, sabotage, or destroy a high-frequency transceiver or any other radio equipment inside the Branch Davidian Church building (Mount Carmel Center) during or before the 51-day standoff with BATF and FBI. 31) Any document authorizing or approving any agency of government to engage in any electronic operation against the Branch Davidian Church at Mount Carmel Center, including electronic surveillance of any kind or jamming of any kind. 32) Any document authorizing or approving foreign military forces to engage in any electronic operations against the Branch Davidian Church at Mount Carmel Center, including electronic surveillance of any kind or jamming of any kind. 33) Any document authorizing or approving any agency of government or any foreign military force to remove, disable, sabotage or destroy any antenna, antenna structures, or antenna towers or supporting structures at Mount Carmel Center. 34) Any communication with the FBI concerning the Branch Davidian Church at Mount Carmel Center near Waco, Texas. 35) Any communication with the National Telecommunications and Information Administration concerning the Branch Davidian Church at Mount Carmel Center near Waco, Texas, the amateur radio station therein, or its operators. 36) Any other related documents pertaining to jamming or electronic surveillance or electronic operations conducted during or before the 51-day standoff. If any part of these documents are exempt, I request that any reasonably segregable portions be released after deletion of the portions which are exempt. This request is made in the interest of the general public, regards the pursuit of justice, and revealing criminal activity by the FBI, FCC, NTIA, DOD, Air Force, U.S. Attorneys, Attorney General of the United States, and President of the United States. Therefore, I request the FCC to waive any fees for searching for or copying documents. If the FCC charges fees, in this case, it would be perceived as obstruction of justice. If you do not grant my request, under administrative appeal, within 20 working days, I will deem by request denied. Following the administrative appeal, this matter becomes a justiciable issue. Punishment is allowed under 5 USC 552 (a) (4) (G). Therefore do not fail. I continue to demand accountability on your part as Chairman at FCC, and demand that you drop whatever you are doing and concentrate on this most important issue of criminality within FCC ( inwhich you seem to be involved) and apparent abuse of power by President Clinton. Yours for Justice, George Zimmerlee email@example.com End of letter to FCC Chairman William Kennard. Delivered to FCC, 10/21/98 FEDEX 09:31 AM Supporting documents, sent with initial request <kenn1098.html> for criminal investigation and FOIA documents included Dallas Morning News articles <dmn0493.html>, House Waco Hearings testimony <hwh_tr1.html>, and FBI letter to Newt Gingrich <fbi_ging.html>.
Return to The Evidence forImpeachment <impeach.html> Documents Two-page FBI letter to Newt Gingrich Page 1 of 2 U.S. Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation Washington, DC 20535 April 21, 1994 Honorable Newt Gingrich House of Representatives Washington, DC 20515 Dear Congressman Gingrich: I am writing in further response to your March 3rd inquiry on behalf of Mr. George Zimmerlee. Mr. Zimmerlee posed a number of question about the actions of the federal government during the standoff at Waco, Texas. During the law enforcement operation at Waco against the Branch Davidians, the FBI assumed responsibility for bringing this dangerous barricade situation to a resolution. This included setting in place a physical and electronic perimeter around the crisis site to prevent further escalation of the incident. It is essential during an operation of this type to control communications into and out of the crisis site. The Branch Davidians had the means to send and receive communications, and the FBI took steps to deny those communications except to the on-scene FBI negotiators. I want to emphasize that such actions were taken in an attempt to avoid further loss of life and to try to bring the crisis to an early resolution. All electronic operations were conducted in accordance with U.S. law and international agreements. The on-site electronic operations received close scrutiny and were approved by an Assistant United States Attorney at the Waco Command Post. All required statutory and administrative authorizations were received from competent authority, including the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), which is the Executive Branch agency responsible for advising the President on telecommunications and information policies and carrying out related functions in accordance with Executive Order 12046. End of page 1 of 2 pages
Two-page FBI letter to Newt Gingrich Page 2 of 2 Furthermore, article 133 of the International Telecommunications Convention states: "Members also reserve the right to cut off any other private telecommunications which may appear dangerous to the security of the state or contrary to its laws, to public order or to decency." The Federal Communications Commission was also on the scene at the invitation of the FBI and acted in its capacity to ensure operations were in accordance with U.S. laws and regulations. In summary, the electronic operations at Waco were conducted in accordance with all U.S. laws and international agreements. We hope this will clarify the questions raised by Mr. Zimmerlee. Sincerely yours, (signature) John H. Kaul Legislative Counsel Office of Public and Congressional Affairs End of page 2 of 2 pages Analysis This document has great value as a case study for medical students studying psychiatric disorders, and law students studying corruption in the Justice Department, to learn just how dangerous people in government really are. Government techniques of lies, distortion, misrepresentation, euphemism, and misapplication of statute are addressed by paragraph. Para. 1. Mr. Kaul does not address the questions raised about jamming radio and television broadcasters in the Waco area, he does not even mention it, yet Congressman Gingrich does not care that Kaul answers no questions. Para. 2. The euphemism used here is "electronic perimeter" in place of deliberate radio interference, which is a crime under 47 USC 305, and 47 USC 333.
Two-page FBI letter to Newt Gingrich Analysis Para. 3. Controlling communications is essential only in a tactical military situation. Therefore, Kaul reveals tactical battlefield military operations, not law enforcement. Kaul refers to a means of sending and receiving communications and admits to jamming or "deny communications" to the amateur radio station at Mount Carmel Center. FBI's jamming kept its unwillingness to negotiate in good faith a secret. The finding and recommendation of the subcommittees in the 1995 House Waco Hearings is that FBI's absolute control over negotiations was wrong. There was, therefore, no need to control communications. Para. 4. Euphemism "electronic operations" used in place of deliberate radio interference. Violations were rampant. FBI had no warrant to tap telephones, or to divert telephone lines, or to intercept cellular communications (a violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act), or to violated the Communications Act by using deliberate jamming. Neither the U.S. Attorneys, nor the NTIA have given any support to FBI's claim of authorization from these agencies. Indeed all documents have been classified to avoid criminal prosecution. Para. 5. Article 133 does not nullify other parts of the ITU rules (International Radio Law), especially Article 44 which outlaws jamming. The conditions of Article 133 were not met. The amateur radio station was no danger to security and the operators broke no law and complied with FCC rules. Radio jamming cannot be supported by law in peacetime, and violates the Constitution's protection of free speech. Only government stations violated ITU rules.
Return to The Evidence forImpeachment <impeach.html> Para. 6. This deception is easily exposed. When FCC supplied the jamming equipment (as reported in Dallas Morning News <dmn0493.html> it became a co-conspirator with other agencies to violate the very Act for which it was created to execute and enforce. Para. 7. Euphemism, "electronic operations" used in place of deliberate radio interference. FBI-FCC operations violated 47 USC 305, 47 USC 326, 47 USC 333, Articles 44 of the ITU rules, and Article 19 of (United Nations) International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Classification of documents to hide evidence and avoid criminal prosecution is a crime also. Para. 8. Kaul hopes only to confuse and mislead. Clarification would require Kaul to answer the question on deliberate jamming of radio and television broadcasters.
Point 1: You are operating under the incorrect assumption that a person has a right to watch TV. Since TV does not require a reception license a person does not have a right to watch TV no matter what they may believe. If I as a licensed amateur radio op were to interfere with my neighbors TV reception, it would be his problem not mine. All I would be required to do is to allow the FCC to inspect my station should they come and not to operate on illegal/unauthorized frequencies using unauthorized power. Well that and perhaps provide them with some coffee and refreshments. And while it it I would also pick their brains for helpful tips and hints.
NOW if I were to interfere with the police dept or fire dept because my radio was not functioning properly or simply used illegal freqs then I am responsible for the transmission jamming said police/fire dept transmissions. They are licensed to both transmit and receive on assigned bands and freuencies.
Point 2..If there were a ham station in the targeted area then the FCC would be the agency making the call on the matter. I would think that if as in Waco as you re that the FCC would err in favor of the Law Enforcement Agencies.
Point 3..interference to other countries. Noting new here at all. The Russinans did it to our shortwave broadcasts and we did it to theirs for decades. Illegals in foreign countries are common on the ham bands. If the interference is comming from out of country there is not a whole lot you can do about it.
Not sure what the point is about this post. There were a hell of a lot of worse mistakes made at that event in Waco than the DoD jamming communications. The biggest one is the fact that the DoD was involved at all. You should _NEVER_ use the military to perform policing operations. They are not trained for it. They are trained to make war. It's never a good idea for the U.S. military to make war on it's own people, even if they are a bunch of wacked out, neo-nazi, pedophile, Jesus freaks.
I am not suprised at all that they jammed communications, that's the kind of stuff you do when you make war.
EM93wa: Ladson - about 18 miles NW of Charleston, SC
To bastardize an old axiom:
So Little to do, so much time.
You need a life. Really!
Dennis R Zabawa / KG4RUL
Berkeley County, SC ARES/RACES - Public Information Officer (PIO)/Webmaster
W4VEC Volunteer Examiner
Trident Amateur Radio Club (TARC), Charleston, SC - Public Information Officer (PIO)/Webmaster
Community Emergency Response Team (CERT), Charleston, SC - Instructor - Team C9B
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ April 12 2003,02:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TERRY,
I'm speculating, but the DOD may have jumped into the action concerning the illeagal cache of military grade weapons, that were being stored on the property.
I'm sure that was the excuse used to justify the use of military force. However, as you can see by the outcome, making war is an ugly business.
They should have arrested their "leader" when he was in town at the bar. If there ever was a textbook case of how not to arrest a criminal, Waco is it.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ April 13 2003,10:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ April 12 2003,02:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TERRY,
I'm speculating, #but the DOD may have jumped into the action concerning the illeagal cache of military grade #weapons, that were being stored on the property.
73, # ORV
I'm sure that was the excuse used to justify the use of military force. However, as you can see by the outcome, making war is an ugly business.
They should have arrested their "leader" when he was in town at the bar. If there ever was a textbook case of how not to arrest a criminal, Waco is it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The federal military is not allowed to become involved in domestic policing. #The Posse Comitatus Act of 1871 forbids this. #This is why the National Guard is a STATE organisation unless federalised by the president. #As STATE folks, they CAN enforce domestic civilian law. #
As far as the illegal weapon at the Branch Davidian compound, the Texas Rangers conducted a "post mortem" investigation, and as far as I ever heard, they never found evidence of any crimes having been commited there. #The weapons found were legal under Texas law, were legally purchased and were not illegally used. #David Koresh was a nutcase, pure and simple. #But whether we like it or not, being nuts is NOT a capital offense in this land. #The only "crime" ever mentioned as possibly occuring was that the federal agents listening inside the complex were convinced that children were being "abused." #Janet Reno cited that as the reason for the actual raid. #This of course makes zero sense: #child abuse is not a federal crime. #Thus the FBI aided by whomever, were not the agency that should have interceded in such event. #
The Branch Davidian incident is a dark page in US history. #The only reason it hasn't been the source for more example is that most of those involved on "the other side" died on the spot. #Unlike the Randy Weaver case where he survived to beat the government. #
I am a law abiding citizen who has spent the past 22 years of my life enforcing the law in New Jersey. #I believe the law should be vigorously enforced, and that everyone should follow it. #Sadly, these are two cases where it seems the law was NOT followed. #The really upsetting thing is it seems those not following the law were those charged with its enforcement. #
My PERSONAL OPINION is that Bill Clinton and Janet Reno saw this as a GRAND opportunity to show America why "citizens" should not be allowed to own guns. And it blew up in their faces.
I will refrain from further discussion of the Branch Davidian disaster. #I was IN Texas during much of that event and in fact was in Waco the day before the FBI raid. #Being there, hearing the news reports from the local broadcasters, and not just the slant from the talking heads in the land of lefties, one might have a different perspective on the entire situation.
WOW!!! Read the whole thing, and still don't understand what this posting has to do with ham radio...But being in Waco the day (several days prior) of the big event, I understand why and what the FBI was doing..I just don't get the point of this posting at all.......